From CTGNOLI@IMICILEA.CILEA.IT Sat Mar 6 22:59:30 2010 Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 17:24:43 MET From: Claudio Gnoli Subject: Re: Transliteration To: Constructed Languages mailing list cc: John Cowan X-UIDL: b84d911d9367f93da753f16e0baa46b6 Status: U X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1927 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Oct 07 11:58:50 1996 X-From-Space-Address: - Message-ID: Some days ago, John Cowan wrote: > Claudio Gnoli scripsit: > > I really would LIKE names were accurately transliterated in Liva. > > However, the phonotactical rules are very strict, in order > > to make word boundaries unambiguous. So, what to do? > > One hypothesis is making names to violate the rules, and > > be preceded by a "name marker" which itself violate the > > rules. It should mean "from here, the phonotactical rules > > temporarily don't count". > > (Hey, why I didn't yet find it in Lojban?! :-) ) > > Oh, it's there. *thump* > "la'o (any word) (pause) (anything at all) > (pause) (the same word)" is a valid Lojban name: > > la'o doitc. Johann Wilhelm von Goethe .doitc. > > (dots represent pauses) is an example. The inclusion need not > even be spoken words: whistles, hiccups, or drum-talk are perfectly > acceptable. As long as the delimiter word doesn't appear in the > inclusion, all is well. Well, once again, a very good solution from Lojban. I decidedly have to spend more time learning it. I guess this device leave only a little question unsolved: suppose you have to quote a German string cointaining itself the word "Deutsch": in spoken language this could be interpreted as the delimiter word "doitc", while it is not. (I admit this is not a very common case. I'm interested with how to deal with it just to satisfying my logical curiosity.) But... I would not bet any shilling Lojban has not a solution also for this! ;-) I suppose one Lojban solution is the use of the pause. Pause is generally not a phoneme in natlangs, so it is unlike to find it within the "foreign" string -- unless it is a drum- talk, of course! Pause seems to work like a sort of "meta-phoneme" here, doesn'it it? Perhaps you might find appropriate to shift this discussion to the Lojban list. > e'osai ko sarji la lojban Ok, ok, you are convincing me :-) . Claudio /.