From lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Tue Nov 19 00:11:14 1996 Received: from relay-10.mail.demon.net by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA16772 ; Tue, 19 Nov 96 00:11:07 GMT Received: from relay-10.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk id 848339619:10:25261:0; Mon, 18 Nov 96 17:53:39 GMT Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu ([128.228.1.2]) by relay-10.mail.demon.net id aa1024987; 18 Nov 96 17:53 GMT Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 4113; Mon, 18 Nov 96 12:52:25 EST Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 4309; Mon, 18 Nov 96 12:52:09 EDT Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:49:05 -0500 Reply-To: "Robert J. Chassell" Sender: Lojban list From: "Robert J. Chassell" Subject: Re: David Brin short story To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu, bob@rattlesnake.com In-Reply-To: <199611172237.TAA05534@roble.intermedia.com.ar> (jorge@intermedia.com.ar) Message-ID: <848339613.1024987.0@cunyvm.cuny.edu> Status: R Jorge J. Llambias just posted the first translation of David Brin's "Toujours Voir". For those of us who are still poor at Lojban, here is a word by word retranslation of the second paragraph. Original: From my regular booth by the window, I saw several customers abruptly leave. The brave, or curious, remained. Translation: i to'o le mi tcaci stuzi pe ne'a le canko mi viska le nu so'o te barja cu suksa cliva i le virnu ja kucli cu stali Word by word: i to'o beyond/outward/receding from le the thing(s)/entity(ies) described as mi tcaci my accustomed stuzi inherent/inalienable site/place/spot/location pe which is ne'a approximating/next to le the thing/entity described as canko a window/portal/opening [portal] in wall/building/structure mi I/we the speaker(s)/author(s) viska see/perceive visually le the thing(s)/entity(ies) described as nu the state/process/achievement/activity of so'o several te barja patrons of the bar cu suksa suddenly/sharply/abruptly/discontinuously cliva leave/go away/depart i le the thing(s)/entity(ies) described as virnu brave/valiant/courageous ja and/or kucli curious/wonders about/is interested in cu stali remains/stays at/abides As far as I can see, there is nothing dramatically interesting in the paragraph's translation, except that it lacks a tense which the English is forced to have. Also, the translation says that what leaves the bar is the entity that is a process or activity of several customers rather than the customers themselves, thus emphasizing those customers as a coherence rather than as individuals. -- Robert J. Chassell bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu 25 Rattlesnake Mountain Road bob@rattlesnake.com Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA (413) 298-4725