From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:59:23 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 25344 invoked from network); 22 Nov 1996 14:41:12 -0000 Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 22 Nov 1996 14:41:10 -0000 Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <11.0BD47652@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 15:41:10 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:38:55 -0500 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: place switching cmavo... X-To: Lojban List To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1658 Lines: 51 Message-ID: la kris. cusku di'e > > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, R.M. Uittenbogaard wrote: > > > I always thought the places were numbered subsequently, and > > [1] fo le dargu cu klama fa mi do lemi zdani le karce > > > > meant that "le karce" occupies the x4 place as well, which makes > > it equal in meaning to: > > [2] mi klama do lemi zdani le dargu .e le karce , or [3] mi klama do lemi zdani le dargu fo le karce > > > > So instead, filled places are skipped for subsequent sumti? > > I think you're right and Lojbab is mistaken on this one, but > I don't have my references here at work to look it up. > > I seem to remember a discussion on this where someone suggested > that (to use your example) le karce and le dargu would act > like appositives, supposedly naming the same thing (and I > forget the cmavo which would do this directly: po'u? no'u? > something like that maybe...) "That turns out not to be the case." Only an explicit FA can stuff two sumti into the same place. In [1], the place assignments are: x4 le dargu x1 mi x2 do x3 lemi zdani x5 le karce Example [2] makes two assertions: that I go (to you, etc.) via the road and also via the car (you and I are presumably on opposite sides of the car, which is serving as an impromptu tunnel). Example [3] does stuff "le dargu" and "le karce" both into the x4 place. This is, indeed, equivalent to Example [2]. See places.txt, Section 3. To make an explicit apposition, use "no'u", meaning "which is incidentally identical to". -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban