Message-ID: <3295BAFF.78B@ccil.org> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:38:55 -0500 From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lojban List Subject: Re: place switching cmavo... References: <199611221003.FAA02394@locke.ccil.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1567 X-From-Space-Date: Fri Nov 22 09:38:55 1996 X-From-Space-Address: - la kris. cusku di'e > > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, R.M. Uittenbogaard wrote: > > > I always thought the places were numbered subsequently, and > > [1] fo le dargu cu klama fa mi do lemi zdani le karce > > > > meant that "le karce" occupies the x4 place as well, which makes > > it equal in meaning to: > > [2] mi klama do lemi zdani le dargu .e le karce , or [3] mi klama do lemi zdani le dargu fo le karce > > > > So instead, filled places are skipped for subsequent sumti? > > I think you're right and Lojbab is mistaken on this one, but > I don't have my references here at work to look it up. > > I seem to remember a discussion on this where someone suggested > that (to use your example) le karce and le dargu would act > like appositives, supposedly naming the same thing (and I > forget the cmavo which would do this directly: po'u? no'u? > something like that maybe...) "That turns out not to be the case." Only an explicit FA can stuff two sumti into the same place. In [1], the place assignments are: x4 le dargu x1 mi x2 do x3 lemi zdani x5 le karce Example [2] makes two assertions: that I go (to you, etc.) via the road and also via the car (you and I are presumably on opposite sides of the car, which is serving as an impromptu tunnel). Example [3] does stuff "le dargu" and "le karce" both into the x4 place. This is, indeed, equivalent to Example [2]. See places.txt, Section 3. To make an explicit apposition, use "no'u", meaning "which is incidentally identical to". -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban