From lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Fri Nov 22 22:45:56 1996 Received: from relay-10.mail.demon.net by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA16801 ; Fri, 22 Nov 96 22:45:53 GMT Received: from relay-9.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk id 848673716:9:02913:3; Fri, 22 Nov 96 14:41:56 GMT Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu ([128.228.1.2]) by relay-10.mail.demon.net id ab1028748; 22 Nov 96 14:41 GMT Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 8749; Fri, 22 Nov 96 09:40:25 EST Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 6445; Fri, 22 Nov 96 09:40:12 EDT Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:38:55 -0500 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: place switching cmavo... X-To: Lojban List To: Multiple recipients of list LOJBAN Message-ID: <848673692.1028748.0@cunyvm.cuny.edu> Status: R la kris. cusku di'e > > On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, R.M. Uittenbogaard wrote: > > > I always thought the places were numbered subsequently, and > > [1] fo le dargu cu klama fa mi do lemi zdani le karce > > > > meant that "le karce" occupies the x4 place as well, which makes > > it equal in meaning to: > > [2] mi klama do lemi zdani le dargu .e le karce , or [3] mi klama do lemi zdani le dargu fo le karce > > > > So instead, filled places are skipped for subsequent sumti? > > I think you're right and Lojbab is mistaken on this one, but > I don't have my references here at work to look it up. > > I seem to remember a discussion on this where someone suggested > that (to use your example) le karce and le dargu would act > like appositives, supposedly naming the same thing (and I > forget the cmavo which would do this directly: po'u? no'u? > something like that maybe...) "That turns out not to be the case." Only an explicit FA can stuff two sumti into the same place. In [1], the place assignments are: x4 le dargu x1 mi x2 do x3 lemi zdani x5 le karce Example [2] makes two assertions: that I go (to you, etc.) via the road and also via the car (you and I are presumably on opposite sides of the car, which is serving as an impromptu tunnel). Example [3] does stuff "le dargu" and "le karce" both into the x4 place. This is, indeed, equivalent to Example [2]. See places.txt, Section 3. To make an explicit apposition, use "no'u", meaning "which is incidentally identical to". -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban