From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:58:45 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 11085 invoked from network); 12 Dec 1996 23:40:14 -0000 Received: from wnt.dc.lsoft.com (206.241.12.7) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 12 Dec 1996 23:40:14 -0000 Received: from listmail.sunet.se by wnt.dc.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <3.72F89380@wnt.dc.lsoft.com>; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:15:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:47:25 GMT Reply-To: Don Wiggins Sender: Lojban list From: Don Wiggins Subject: Re: CONLANG: Write-only language, part 2 X-To: conlang@diku.dk To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 2103 Lines: 51 Message-ID: >"You who think to seek for me, know that your seeking and yearning will >avail you not, unless you know the mystery: for if that which you seek, >you find not within yourself, you will never find it without." (From The >Charge of the Goddess, more or less as written by Doreen Valiente) The most difficult thing about this is understanding what the English actually means. I have taken it as: "You (who think to seek for me,) (know that your seeking and yearning will avail you not, unless you know the mystery):" Sets the topic of the statement. Firstly restricting the set of listeners, then clarifying some information about them. "for if (that which you seek, (you find not within yourself,)) you will never find it without." The actual assertion is that the thing sought is not found without and the conditions are that it is not found within. In Lojban: do poi troci lenu sisku tu'ami kei zi'enoi djuno ledu'u lenu sisku jo'u camdji kei na sidju ki'u lenu na'e djuno filo nalterju'o zo'u va'o lenu lo jai se sisku be do na zo'i facki kei do na ze'o facki do poi troci lenu sisku tu'a mi kei You who-restrictive-clause try the-event-of seeking something-to-do-with me zi'e noi djuno ledu'u lenu sisku clause-connective, who-descriptive-clause know that the-event-of seeking jo'u camdji kei na sidju ki'u in-common-with intense-desire it-is-false-that help because-reason lenu na'e djuno filo nalterju'o zo'u the-event-of other-than knowing about-the other-than-known topic: va'o lenu lo jai se sisku be do under-the-conditions-of the-event-of the abtraction | sought | by you na zo'i facki kei do na ze'o facki it-is-false-that inward find you it-is-false-that outward find. The Lojban doesn't need all of the 'you's, 'it's and 'that's that pepper the English and the scope of the predication is defined. ni'o co'omi'e dn.