From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:58:47 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 15650 invoked from network); 20 Dec 1996 17:22:34 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 20 Dec 1996 17:22:34 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <1.3AE448CD@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:22:32 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:19:16 GMT+0 Reply-To: And Rosta Sender: Lojban list From: And Rosta Organization: University of Central Lancashire Subject: Re: PLI: evidentials in reported speech X-To: LOJBAN@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1377 Lines: 28 Message-ID: Mark: > >The simple answer is that unquoted UI (or most of them) hold > >at utterance level and are not subordinable within, say, a > >reported jufra se valsi. They are like "Wow!" and "Ouch!" and > >"OOH, there there" and parentheticals like "(I reckon)", etc. > >Similarly in English "He read that Julie Christie (phwoar!) > >plays Gertrude", said by me, the "phwoar" expresses my emotion. > > > >If you wanted to report me saying "JC (phwoar!) is playing G" > >then you might say "La and said lickerishly that JC is playing > >G", for example. Same goes for Lojban. > > > >Or have I missed the point of the debate? > > I was under the impression it was just the other way 'round. I thought > that with minimal changes, you could take a huge utterance said by anyone, > put lu/li'u around it (assuming it's grammatical Lojban) and say "la > bab. cusku..." and attribute it all to the speaker. Without having to > check for the myriads of UI words that probably are there; only if there's > a sa'a (which then has to become sa'asa'a). Otherwise it becomes terribly > difficult to quote people, since UI words are (or should be) fairly common > in speech, quoted and otherwise. I was talking about saying *that* such and such is the case, as opposed to saying/uttering the words "such and such is the case". I.e. where the "sayee" is a proposition rather than verbal. And