From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:58:58 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 6231 invoked from network); 18 Dec 1996 20:34:11 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 18 Dec 1996 20:34:11 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <9.A9661633@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:34:07 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:32:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Re: PLI: evidentials in reported speech X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199612181858.NAA20500@cs.columbia.edu> (message from And Rosta on Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:53:21 GMT+0) Content-Length: 1277 Lines: 27 Message-ID: <-eSDfD7KbvH.A.CBC.y60kLB@chain.digitalkingdom.org> >Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:53:21 GMT+0 >From: And Rosta >Organization: University of Central Lancashire > >The simple answer is that unquoted UI (or most of them) hold >at utterance level and are not subordinable within, say, a >reported jufra se valsi. They are like "Wow!" and "Ouch!" and >"OOH, there there" and parentheticals like "(I reckon)", etc. >Similarly in English "He read that Julie Christie (phwoar!) >plays Gertrude", said by me, the "phwoar" expresses my emotion. > >If you wanted to report me saying "JC (phwoar!) is playing G" >then you might say "La and said lickerishly that JC is playing >G", for example. Same goes for Lojban. > >Or have I missed the point of the debate? I was under the impression it was just the other way 'round. I thought that with minimal changes, you could take a huge utterance said by anyone, put lu/li'u around it (assuming it's grammatical Lojban) and say "la bab. cusku..." and attribute it all to the speaker. Without having to check for the myriads of UI words that probably are there; only if there's a sa'a (which then has to become sa'asa'a). Otherwise it becomes terribly difficult to quote people, since UI words are (or should be) fairly common in speech, quoted and otherwise. ~mark