From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:59:00 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 30736 invoked from network); 17 Dec 1996 18:11:23 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 17 Dec 1996 18:11:23 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <11.8CD5C424@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:11:20 +0100 Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Re: PLI: evidentials in reported speech X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199612171439.JAA11713@cs.columbia.edu> (message from Don Wiggins on Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:55:21 GMT) Content-Length: 1836 Lines: 44 Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:55:21 GMT >From: Don Wiggins >How does one write reported speech that originally contained an evidential: > > .i ko'a cusku lu .i pe'i fo'a ca'o klama lo zarci li'u > He said " I-opine-that she is-still going to-the shop. " > >Is this equivalent to: > > .i ko'a cusku lesedu'u pe'idai fo'a ca'o klama lo zarci > He said that other-opine-that she is-still going to-the shop. > .i ko'a pe'idai cusku lesedu'u fo'a ca'o klama lo zarci > He<-opinion-of said... I don't quite follow your two choices. Everything inside lu/li'u is part of the quotation and thus part of what was expressed by the speaker (ko'a). So your first sentence indicates that ko'a said fo'a is going to the shop, and that's ko'a's opinion (and indeed, that ko'a SAID it was ko'a's opinion). I don't see how it could possibly refer to fo'a's opinion, that doesn't enter into it; the question I thought you were asking is if the "pe'i" could be considered to refer to the speaker of the whole sentence ("mi"). For "mi" to express mi's feelings, the attitudinal needs to be outside of the quotes either in actuality or in some editorial parens (to'i/toi?) with sa'a to unquote those (as I recall, lu/li'u quotes contain, semantically, ALL their contents except sa'a, which can be used to unquote other stuff). Am I (a) understanding the question, and (b) remembering right? ~mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQB1AwUBMrbhxsppGeTJXWZ9AQFQbgL+Ll39NRFWSL1EMQy0FzxyI4ekFu94DifX h0WZcPA3Pcakw2c+aCRJ9KK8a4xLP5imS1e00QEg9+pE3s0tC9v3qtHaw8Rt6bHC l28AcP0hVPLM5TII8+4lfe/4Iu8uzoNn =joJJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----