From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:58:45 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 10128 invoked from network); 19 Dec 1996 13:48:05 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 19 Dec 1996 13:48:05 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <9.190F1611@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:48:02 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:45:18 -0500 Reply-To: Pycyn@AOL.COM Sender: Lojban list From: "John E. Clifford" Subject: Re: PLI: zoigy. unless .gy. xelfanva lu secau X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 695 Lines: 11 Message-ID: I missed the start of this one, but, while there is often causality implied, the basic meaning of "unless" is just "or," lojban {a} or the appropriate related form (including, as the occasion demands, {onoi}). The problem with causality is that it is not symmetric, whereas "unless" can at least function in either direction: against your cases, "He will come, unless his car breaks down," where the car not breaking down is not the cause of his coming, but the car breaking down would be the cause of his not coming. But more importantly, unless does not allow the assertion of one of the alternatives while the other is subordinated; neither is asserted, unlike the examples you give. >|83