From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:57:10 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 12273 invoked from network); 29 Jan 1997 01:33:23 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 29 Jan 1997 01:33:23 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <5.43CDABD8@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 2:33:24 +0100 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:30:31 -0700 Reply-To: Chris A Bogart Sender: Lojban list From: Chris A Bogart Subject: Re: A question about space tenses X-To: lojban%cuvmb.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199701290003.RAA03847@indra.com> Content-Length: 1672 Lines: 41 Message-ID: <-W_7U4UB4qN.A.qgB.G50kLB@chain.digitalkingdom.org> On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Jorge J. Llambias wrote: > According to the gismu list, farna means "x1 is the direction of x2 > from origin x3". I really don't want to turn this into another > what-does-the-English-word-means, but my dictionary has for "direction" > (besides some other irrelevant stuff): > > direction: the line or course on which something is moving or is aimed > to move or along which something is pointing or facing. > > I understood "farna" to mean that x2 is moving/aimed/pointing/facing > in the direction that goes from x3 to x1. Is my understanding wrong? > If so, how do I get this meaning in Lojban? Since x1 is glossed as "direction", I imagine it to be "north" or something, not "the store". The definition sounds more natural substituting North for x1: "North" is the direction of "the store" from origin "my house" (which to me implies nothing about how the store or the house are facing) It's less plausible with x1 and x3 being endpoints of a line parallel to the way x2 is facing: "Mecca" is the direction of "Jorge" from origin "New York City" Does this mean that you're facing the same direction that a New Yorker would have to face to face Mecca? Or that you are facing Mecca and happen to be in NYC? If the latter, I strongly disapprove of x3 as a superfluous place. The former could work, but I don't get it from the definition, and it doesn't seem intuitive to me. In short, I think the "direction" line is from x3 to x2, and x1 is the name of the direction. An orientation gismu would have a place structure like "x1 is facing in direction x2", with no separate "origin" point (since x2 is the origin!). Chris