From LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET  Sat Mar  6 22:51:01 2010
Reply-To: "Jorge J. Llambias" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
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Date: Tue Mar 25 09:29:35 1997
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From: "Jorge J. Llambias" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Subject:      Re: lei xau-dja-sei
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To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
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And:
> > le remei po'u pa fraso ku joi pa dotco
> > The couple which is a french and a german.
> I think the answer is that there is no general way of saying,
> say, "the/some footballers who are Welsh, Scottish, Irish and
> English".

The above does generalize:

        lei jmabolkei po'u lo selnatmrkimri ku joi lo skoto ku
        joi lo selnatmrxeire ku joi lo glico
        The footballers who are at least one Welsh + at least
        one Scottish + at least one Irish + at least one English.

That works. But you probably want the individual form:

        le jmabolkei po'u lo selnatmrkimri a lo skoto
        a lo selnatmrxeire a lo glico
        Each of the footballers who is a Welsh or a Scottish
        or an Irish or an English.

I think that one works, too.


> > >            le ga mamta be la xorxes gi mamta be la and
> > Well, it would if that were grammatical, but it isn't.
> In a brief scan of my home mahoste & the www refgram I
> cannot find how to do forethought sumti tail connection.
> I thought GA was okay pretty well everywhere.

There is no way of doing sumti tail connection, forethought or
afterthought. You could use tanru connection for a similar
effect:
        le gu'a mamta be la xorxes gi mamta be la and

> > > (Same goes for "children of xorxes and and".)
> >  roda po'u lu'a la xorxes ce la and zo'u le panzi be da
> >  For all x which is a member of {Jorge, And}: The children of x.
> > Can't think of a nice and short form.
> Would
>     ro da po`u la xorxes a la and zou le panzi be da
> work?

Yes!! At least I think it does. The prenex part is just like
the footballers example, isn't it?


> > Let's say you want "the people
> > are French and German", and you insist on using "le prenu" rather
> > than "lei prenu" for "the people". Then I don't know.
> That was what set me off originally. I was trying to do an English
> phrase that seemed trivially straightforward and then ran into
> this snag.

Yes, I don't know how to do that one. With lei it is trivial, but
if we want to make the individual claims it is much tougher. The
logical claim is:

        le prenu cu fraso gi'a dotco
        ije su'o le prenu cu fraso
        ije su'o le prenu cu dotco

        Each of the people is French or German
        and at least one of them is French
        and at least one of them is German.

But I don't know how to condense that into a simple phrase.

Jorge