From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:48:48 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 10395 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1997 09:31:51 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 16 Apr 1997 09:31:51 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <12.3D700970@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:31:50 +0100 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:41:36 -0400 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Re: query X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199704130406.AAA10171@cs.columbia.edu> (message from Edward Cherlin on Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:17:56 -0700) Content-Length: 1935 Lines: 43 Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:17:56 -0700 >From: Edward Cherlin > >e'osai ko fanva "political correctness" la lojban Don't translate words, translate ideas. The trouble with this request is that it seems to presume there's a term, a "patently obvious" lujvo or tanru, which works for this concept. But I don't see why there should be (at least, not a short one). After all, try translating the (modern meaning of) "political correctness" into *English*, but the English of, oh, fifty years ago. I don't think the term existed in its modern meaning then. There *WAS NO* simple way of putting it. You would have to explain the whole concept, and what you meant by it, and define the term thereby. Not translating it into a term, but describing it and assigning a word to your definition (and which definition you choose is also a matter of debate, I imagine). I've watched the back-and-forth about "philosophy" go by here, and I must say that the same argument applies. The word has so many different meanings and uses and shades of meaning it's hard to believe Lojban will have ANY single term for all of them, and just about all of them are sufficiently complex that they need to be explained before you use them, no matter *what* simple selbri you use. You can't translate it, just *plink* there's your word. You have to define it, say what you mean, and then if you like assign that meaning to a word (lujvo, tanru, broda, etc). Was it Jorge who recently said the same in Lojban? I just skimmed the message. That's why God created "cei", folks. ~mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQB1AwUBM1O9zcppGeTJXWZ9AQH95wMAg0KX9RZxZj//F87QK+DYTrWWg+m0kVJ4 WqyLO7dAPvXo8RdQ44pminJIX8D4t9Zaq2VwsQQUvaWmf8z2NDyHOUb0FRE1KKvt x3bBslvRHcSR8f0wkHTANwC/BVJLIUjh =V+Wu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----