From - Tue Apr 08 13:18:27 1997 Reply-To: Lee Daniel Crocker Date: Tue Apr 08 13:18:27 1997 Sender: Lojban list From: Lee Daniel Crocker Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) Subject: Re: Philosophy X-To: Lojban Group X-cc: lee@piclab.com To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: <199704072037.NAA21853@mail.calweb.com> from John Cowan at "Apr 7, 97 04:38:37 pm" X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 4195 Message-ID: > la xorxes. cusku di'e > > I think philosophy has to be a saske. [...] > > Any suggestions from the philosophers? Philosophy should be a seltadni--a field of study--but it is unique among them by being self-referential. I.e., it is the study of fields of study themselves, how they come about, what methods are used, etc. Philosophy is not a science, because it is what determines what is a science and what isn't. Philosophy is the study of questions that we don't even know how to study yet. So, analagous to "bantadni" (liguist/linguistics), I propose "tadnytadni", with the same structure (where x2 is a particular brand of linguistics or philosophy). Has kind of a ring to it. -- Lee Daniel Crocker "All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past, are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC From - Tue Apr 08 13:21:48 1997 by eeyore.cc.uic.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19093 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 19:50:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 19:50:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199704072006.QAA28584@locke.ccil.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Cowan From: Steven Belknap Subject: Re: Philosophy (was: CPE: Corliss Lamont) X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2603 Wittgenstein, who was a suicide, eventually concluded that philosophy was a form of mental illness, or to be more precise, that the behavior of making philosophical inquiry was a form of mental illness. This seems a defensible position, given the tragic personal lives of most philosophers. Philosophy is only dangerous when taken too seriously. Reading in philosophy is an essential part of an education, as familiarity wiith mental illness is very helpful in understanding history. The trial of Socrates is best appreciated after several glasses of a good port. How about "pointless pondering" as an English gloss for the lojban translation? -Steven >la xorxes. cusku di'e > >> I think philosophy has to be a saske. [...] >> Any suggestions from the philosophers? > >pc denounced this view, which was the original >Loglan view, as long ago as 1980, and I posted his >remarks to this list on 18 October 1993. >I will repeat them here. > >[...] The L4/L5 (1975) word >for "philosophy" is (the equivalent of) "pensi zei sakse", think-science. >(Institute Loglan doesn't have an equivalent of "nun-".) > >In TL4/4:200, {pycy. cusku di'e} > >> This ... word is one of the worst items in the established Loglan >> vocabulary. Philosophy is not any kind of a science -- even the >> pickwickian sorts that astrology or sociology are -- and hence is not >> the science of thought, in particular. That title might better go to >> psychology, were it may not fit well, but certainly better than it does >> for philosophy.... Since no canons of the scientific method -- and no >> appeal to evidence of a scientific sort -- is relevant here, the best >> words are surely those from the fields of airy argumentation. Since >> the subjects are words and/or ideads dealt with in a strange way or >> ideologies ditto ("the analysis of concepts and the criticism of beliefs" >> we used to say) how about something from [ciste ke sidbo darlu] >> (the [ke] is to cover the two phases -- the systematic discussion of >> ideas and the discussion -- admittedly also systematic, in the same sense >> of ideologies -- systematized ideas, more or less. > >The resulting lujvo is "ci'erkemsibdau", not much worse than "philosopher". >(This discussion neglects the distinction between "-y" and "-er".) > >-- >John Cowan cowan@ccil.org > e'osai ko sarji la lojban Steven Belknap, M.D. Assistant Professor of Clinical Pharmacology and Medicine University of Illinois College of Medicine at Peoria