From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:53:23 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 12610 invoked from network); 25 Sep 1997 08:09:25 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 25 Sep 1997 08:09:25 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <5.8A3541A6@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:09:14 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:52:45 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: RV: na'e entails na? To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu Content-Length: 1951 Lines: 37 Message-ID: And: >Before it gets settled by consensus-of-everyone-except-me, can >we see how the following things can be said: > >(1) If na`e entails na: How to say something equivlant to na`e > but not entailing na? Not having kept up, I would require an example of what might be equivalent to na'e that should not entail na in order to tackle this. The only alternative I can think of would be an aorist-like predicate "I claim a different relationship from broda pertains, but not necessarily denying broda". For this, I suggest that "bu'a", or perhaps "srana" suffice. You could even make explicit a connection to broda with "bu'a joi broda" which neither entails nor excludes broda alone by massification rules. For that matter then "bu'a joi na'e broda" should also not entail a "na'e broda" which in turn entails "na broda". I could also beg the question by answering "nalbroda" (or appropriate equivalent for the actual broda you have in mind), or "narbroda", each of which as a lujvo strongly implies the corresponding non-lujvo form, but I could not go so far as to say "entails it" because neither is actually in the dictionary per se stating so. A more genral idea, based on the "joi na'e broda" idea above is that "na'e broda" in a tanru probably does not entail "na broda", and hence you can add some other appropriate modifier or modificand to get across whatever it is you are trying to say (which I have not yet fathomed, since I haven't conceived of a na'e that shgould not entail na). lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.