From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:53:57 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 2310 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1997 16:04:46 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 19 Sep 1997 16:04:46 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F3C801B8@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:04:35 +0100 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:59:42 GMT+0 Reply-To: And Rosta Sender: Lojban list From: And Rosta Organization: University of Central Lancashire Subject: Re: na`e X-To: LOJBAN@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1681 Lines: 37 Message-ID: > >Annoyed by my failure to remember the word "tanru", > >I bothered to look up the online refgram discussion > >of na`e. It is completely unclear about whether my > >contention is correct; it seems that the question has > >not been addressed. Certain phrases suggest that > >na`e does entail na, but this is not as far as I > >can see said explicitly, and the general description > >of na`e certainly does not imply that na`e entails > >na. > > I believe that the negation chapter clearly states that scalar negation > entails contradictory negation AND goes beyond it in stating that some > other relationship is true. This would be true for both na'e and to'e, > but not necessarily for no'e, IMHO. > > See the negation chapter, section 3, approx 3 paragraphs past the diagram > showing the nature of scalar truths for the discussion. I have read from the diagram to the end of sec 3, and cannot find any such clear statement. Although elsewhere the phrase "denies a relationship" does crop up en passant when some other point is being made (so that it is not clear whether the phrasing is a merely misleading attempt to avoid explaining scalar negation solely by means of English equivalents), the entire tenor of the discussion implies that na`e does not entail na: we are given English equivalents, and we are told that scalar negation is selbri negation. Contradictory negation on the other hand, is not selbri negation, and is involved in complex scope interactions with other elements of logical meaning. I still conclude that the ref gram is vague about whether na`e entails na, and that this logically entails that in current Lojban na`e does not entail na. --And