From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:54:12 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 19174 invoked from network); 26 Sep 1997 07:59:15 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 26 Sep 1997 07:59:15 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <5.491CE9B2@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 9:59:04 +0100 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:57:36 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: RV: na'e entails na? X-To: a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1985 Lines: 43 Message-ID: >> The only alternative >> I can think of would be an aorist-like > >why "aorist-like"? I was likening to aorist tenses wherein the aorist future does not deny the present or past. Not sure what the corresponding linguistic term would be for exclusive /non-exclusive scalar negation. >> predicate "I claim a different >> relationship from broda pertains, but not necessarily denying broda". >> For this, I suggest that "bu'a", > >Two drawbacks: (i) irksome longwindedness, especially given that >na`e was invented for exactly the purpose I am proposing, As the inventor of na'e as something distinct from na, I have to correct this. na'e differs in scope and is grammatical in tanru (where its semantics are of course debatable), and na'e is intended to cover the scalar negation of natural language. If natural language scalar negation does or does not entail predicate negation, than the same should apply to na'e which is not a logical operation. I've asked pc for an opinion (can't say "ruling" anymore - we don't "rule" in Lojban Central), but he seems not to be active online these days. Or someone should check out what Horn says on the subjkect, since his books is a veritable bible of negation in all its forms. >(ii) merely quantifying over selbri fails to express the notion >of "relevant scale" that na`e does - one would need a way of >quantifying over "relevant selbri" (which could be done by some >new cmavo or other, I suppose...) We do have a BAI cmavo for scale that could be used for this purpose perhaps. lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.