Message-Id: <199709290722.CAA23634@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Date: Mon Sep 29 02:22:39 1997 Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: .ei as I see it X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 1988 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Sep 29 02:22:39 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Jorge: >Surely it's the second! We have the following possibilities: Unless contradicted in the Book, I interpret your examples as > ei mi klama > I must come. I am coming (I feel obliged to). > ei mi na klama > I must not come. I'm not coming (I feel obliged not to). > einai mi klama > I don't have to come. > (I may not come.) I am coming (I am free to do so) > einai mi na klama > I don't have to not come. > (I may come.) I am not coming (I am free not to do so). I am imagining a wedding as a situation where various invited or uninvited people associated with the bride/groom might express any of these. >Unfortunately "einai" is glossed as "freedom" in the cmavo list, which >would reverse the meaning of last two. "Freedom to do something" is not >the same as "non-obligation to do something", but rather it is >"non-obligation to NOT do something". I don't think that the "nai" of >"einai" should have this double negative implication, so I propose to >fix the gloss in the cmavo list. "freedom" means "freedom from obligation" in the case of the cmavo list which has traditionally been limited to a keyword size appropriate to LogFlash. There are numerous places like this one where the keyword is inadequate or perhaps misleading in some contexts (especially if negation is involved). I think "eicu'i" is a weaker form of 'non-obligation', which is why the "einai" is glossed as freedom - choice not only lacking but perhaps eschewing obligation. ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.