From LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:53:31 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Received: (qmail 21824 invoked from network); 22 Sep 1997 17:27:29 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.6) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with SMTP; 22 Sep 1997 17:27:29 -0000 Received: from segate.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <5.01778031@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:27:19 +0100 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:26:00 -0400 Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" Sender: Lojban list From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Subject: Re: na`e To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: <199709201147.HAA15572@cs.columbia.edu> (bob@MEGALITH.RATTLESNAKE.COM) Content-Length: 1269 Lines: 35 Message-ID: >Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:46:00 -0400 >From: bob@MEGALITH.RATTLESNAKE.COM > > 3. The cat sits otherwise than on the chair. > lo mlatu ca'o na'e vreta lo stizu > >The latter utterance contains *two* propositions: > > a. That it is false that the cat sits on the chair; and, > b. that some other proposition is true. > > > to ra'unai lo mlatu ca'a vreta lo cuktykajna toi > (Incidentally, the cat actually reposes on a > book-type-of-counter/shelf.) [snip] >Chapter 15: > But what exactly does na'e negate? Does the negation include only > the gismu klama, which is the entire selbri in this case, or does > it include the le zarci as well? In Lojban, the answer is > unambiguously ``only the gismu''. The cmavo na'e always applies > only to what follows it. So that would mean that {lo mlatu ca'o na'e vreta lo stizu} means "the cat other-than-sits on the chair" (NOT that the cat sits other than on the chair). The "other statement" that is true might be {my. ca'o citka lo stizu} or {my. ca'o cadzu lo stizu} etc. Does that make sense? If {na'e} negates what comes after it, that's the brivla here, not the following sumti as you seem to have interpreted. Sorry if this is wrong, or right but old news. ~mark