Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 00:19:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199710220519.AAA20367@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: abstractor place structures X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 2922 X-From-Space-Date: Wed Oct 22 00:19:32 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU I think I need to put up the place structures of the various defining gismu for the abstractors so we are clear why they attribute to particular places of those gismu. >ckaji kai quality x1 has/is >characterized by property/feature/trait/aspect/dimension x2 (ka) x2 is pretty much the definition of "ka". >fasnu fau event 'happen' x1 (event) is an >event that happens/occurs/takes place x1 defines "nu" >klani lai quantity x1 is a quantity >quantified/measured/enumerated by x2 (quantifier) on scale x3 (si'o x1 defines "ni" >lifri lif fri experience 'life' x1 >[person/passive/state] undergoes/experiences x2 (event/experience) x2 defines "li'i" >sidbo sib si'o idea x1 (idea >abstract) is an idea/concept/thought about x2 (object/abstract) by thinker x x1 defines "si'o" Jorge: > lei va mlatu cu klani li paci le ka kancu > Those cats are in quantity 13 as counted. Why not just use kancu as the selbri? > le rismu poi mi te vecni cu klani li ci le ka ki'ogra > The rice that I bought amounts to 3 in kilograms. > > le rismu poi mi te vecni cu klani li repivoso le ka rupnu > The rice that I bought amounts to 2.49 in pesos. You could use merli for both of these. >But when we need to create a new measure word, we have to >base it on {klani}. For example: > > le sakta cu klani li ci le ka se kabri > The sugar amounts to three in being cupped. le sakta cu se merli li ci le se kabri ckilu The sugar is measured to be 3 on the be-cupped scale. >I don't know what gismu we would use to form new measure words >if a klani is not a concrete object. If klani ckilu, gradu, merli were intended for these purposes. >One factor you haven't considered is that if we settle on the unraised >meaning the gi'uste will need some cleaning up. The gismu listy is baselined, and you will note in the refgrammar that the gismu list actually overrides the refgrammar in case of conflict. We don't "clean it up" unless the gismu list is unlcear or self-conflicting. (For example, I am sure x2 of merli is not a ni or a li - I tended to be explicit for these, but "quantity" is ambiguous tp spme people vs "quantifier", and perhaps "quantity abstraction". lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.