Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:22:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711061622.LAA06650@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: mark.vines@wholefoods.com Sender: Lojban list From: Mark Vines Subject: Re: Beginner question: seitu'a lo velrimni je pemci X-To: LOJBAN@CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: Rick Nylander "Beginner question: seitu'a lo velrimni je pemci" (Nov 5, 2:05pm) X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2535 X-From-Space-Date: Thu Nov 6 11:22:28 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU la rik. spuda mi di'e > > .i la refgram. ca selcau lemi briju skami > > ... > > My question is simple: what influenced your choice of > "selcau" in the first bridi? Why not just use "claxu" > and reverse the arguments? Was it a conscious decision > or have you just gained sufficient fluency (or > vocabulary) that it just comes naturally? mi spuda la rik. di'e It was a conscious decision; I have not yet gained fluency in Lojban. Part of the reason still stands: I wanted the refgram to be the first sumti, a position I think of as the topical. Another part of the reason is that I have recently been organizing my study of the gismu such that I am associating each gismu with all of the corresponding lujvo that have this pattern: (conversion cmavo rafsi) + (gismu or gismu rafsi) Because {selcau} has this pattern, I have studied the word recently, which made its use more convenient. But part of the reason for my decision to use {selcau} instead of {claxu} disappeared when I added the tense marker {ca} while editing my message prior to posting it. Originally, I had planned to leave the bridi unmarked for tense. This plan allowed (at least) two options: 1 .i lemi briju skami cu claxu la refgram. 2 .i la refgram. selcau lemi briju skami When I counted syllables, the first option was longer, because the word {cu} was required to separate the first sumti from the selbri. The second option was shorter, because its first sumti was a cmene, whose boundary was clear enough even without {cu}. So I decided to use the second, shorter option. Of course, after I chose to add the tense marker {ca}, the two options became more or less equal in length: 1 .i lemi briju skami ca claxu la refgram. 2 .i la refgram. ca selcau lemi briju skami but, by that time, I had already selected option 2. ... > > .iku'i lemi skami xelmri ca zvati po'o lemi briju > > skami > > "However, the computer that carries my mail is only my > office computer." I would translate {lemi skami xelmri} as "my email system" rather than "the computer that carries my mail". In the typical tanru, the last word - in this case {xelmri}, "mail system" - is the definitive one. Also, I would translate {zvati} as "is at" or "is located at" or "is present at", rather than "is". So my preferred translation would be: "However, my email system is currently located only on my office computer." But, since your translation has the same sense as mine, the differences between them really don't matter much. co'omi'e markl.