Date:  Thu, 6 Nov 1997 13:55:55 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199711061855.NAA11186@locke.ccil.org>
Reply-To: And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>
Organization: University of Central Lancashire
Subject:      Re: abstractors
X-To:         LOJBAN@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
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Content-Length: 1510
X-From-Space-Date: Thu Nov  6 13:56:08 1997
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Jorge:
> And:
> > I would see li`i
> >as a counterpart of nu, that differs from nu in that nu is
> >the real world while li`i is the world of an individual's (x2
> >of li`i) experience.
> >
> >That leaves the matter of how to lojban:
> >
> >  Only Prince Charles remembers marrying Diana. [true]
> >  Only Prince Charles remembers his/P.C.'s marrying Diana. [false]
>
> Wouldn't then those be:
>
>    i le truraibe'a po'o cu morji le li'i ty speni la dianas kei be ty
>
>    i le truraibe'a po'o cu morji le nu ri speni la dianas
>
> Presumably only he could remember his experience. The final
> {be ty} is needed to distinguish from:
>
>    i le truraibe'a po'o cu morji le li'i ty speni la dianas kei be dy
>
> which would be false.

I don't see why only Charles can remember his own experience.
It depends what "morji" means, I suppose. Can it mean
"remember something about x2"? If so, then your solution doesn't
work.

My suggested translations:

> >  Only Prince Charles remembers marrying Diana. [true]

  ro da poi ke`a morji lo nu da speni la dianas cu du le truraibe'a

or

  le truraibe'a po`o cu du da poi ke`a morji lo nu da speni la dianas

> >  Only Prince Charles remembers his/P.C.'s marrying Diana. [false]

  ro da poi ke`a morji lo nu le truraibe'a speni la dianas cu du ty

or

  le truraibe'a po`o cu du da poi ke`a morji lo nu ty speni la dianas

That, I think, gets the meaning right, though it would be nice to
find a way of doing it without the "du". I guess these would work:

--And