Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:59:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711202159.QAA21077@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: do all nu's happen? X-To: a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2164 X-From-Space-Date: Thu Nov 20 16:59:20 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU >> If that makes {nu do gerku} true if I can even imagine your >> being a dog, then sobeit: that's the nature of abstraction. >> We can still talk about non-abstract {fasnu}, so why cripple >> {nu} with the burden of reality? > >If think that the official story, to the extent that there is >one, would be as follows. Both {nu} and {fasnu} mean "potential >event", just as {gerku} means "potential dog". So your solution >doesn't work, but nonetheless there may not be a problem. I think that fasnu has to refer to potential or real events. I think that nu can refer to any definable/plausible/conceivable relationship ven if that relationship cannot happen in the real world or other universe of discourse. As for involing multiple universes of discourse in order to make your idea of nu, and nelci, etc. make sense - I just don't buy it. If the context is the real world then "mi djica/nelci lo " fails veridicality but Iam not sure that "mi djica/nelci lonu " does (I can be argued on this specific example though - I am not bringing the kind of examples I want to mind right now). I have no idea what the debate is on denpa, not having been paying attention, but the discussion in this message is omitting the important x3 and x4 places. denpa not only requires that you wait for something, but that there be a chance of state or process upon the occurence of x2, from x3 to x4. There are ways to fill these places so as to nullify them (like x3 = x4) But there is no implication in denpa of either hoping or wanting x2or indeed that x1 is capable of cognition or emotion. Nor is there a requirement that x2 actually occur, though there has to be an x4 that results if x2 does occur. lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.