Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:14:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711161014.FAA06178@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Ashley Yakeley Sender: Lojban list From: Ashley Yakeley Subject: Irony and Cultural Neutrality X-To: Lojban List To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 1128 X-From-Space-Date: Sun Nov 16 05:14:47 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU At 1997-11-14 10:12, Logical Language Group wrote: ... >And part of defining a language includes at least a little bit of defining >the culture. In our case, I try to minimize this, but for one example, I >go out of my way to derogate cultural artifacts of English because Lojban >is currently dominated by native English speakers, and it is desirable that >Lojban develop as culturally independent of native English culture as >possible, to meet its goals of cultural neutrality. So you accept that this is a cultural matter? 'Cultural artifact of English' does not well characterise irony, since many (most? all?) other cultures make ironic use of their languages. In any case, this is not a good approach to cultural neutrality. A better approach might come from the notion that cultural tendencies in language come largely from its constraints or impediments to expression, and that a language should therefore avoid such impediments as much as possible. I certainly feel constrained by prohibitions on irony, since occasional irony is part of my culture. -- Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA http://www.halcyon.com/ashleyb/