Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 20:13:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711080113.UAA01888@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Ashley Yakeley Sender: Lojban list From: Ashley Yakeley Subject: Re: "will", "le mi..." X-To: Lojban List To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1409 X-From-Space-Date: Fri Nov 7 20:13:47 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU At 1997-11-07 11:57, Lee Daniel Crocker wrote: >I have to stick with self-motivation for "will"; the gloss "wants >to do..." is a loose one, not the definitional to my mind. To me, >those passengers may not have enjoyed the idea of eating their fellows, >and may have been reluctant to do so, but they still did so of their >own will (motivated by their own hunger). One's desires are not >always the same as one's will or intent. {sezmu'i} is the latter; >the former is {djica}. But if the passengers are {sezmu'i} to eat their fellows by their own internal desire to eat, surely the slaves are {sezmu'i} to work by their own internal desire to avoid pain? Is there a difference because a slavemaster is deliberate, and a plane crash isn't? What if the plane crashed due to a bomb in the hold, could the passengers no longer use {sezmu'i} because they had been forced by the bomber? {djica} might be useful, but its x2 covers any event or state, not just the actions of x1. So {ko zukte le se djica be do} means 'do those events and states you desire to happen', which isn't quite the same as 'do those actions you desire to do'. For instance, I might desire the state of Tibetan independence, but it's not something I can just 'do'. One solution is to use {djica mukti} (or {djimu'i}), 'desiring type-of motivation' to express 'want'. -- Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA http://www.halcyon.com/ashleyb/