Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 22:58:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711140358.WAA02907@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: JORGE JOAQUIN LLAMBIAS Sender: Lojban list From: JORGE JOAQUIN LLAMBIAS Subject: Re: abstractors X-To: lojban To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1511 X-From-Space-Date: Thu Nov 13 22:58:59 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU And: >> i ty po'o cu morji le ka ce'u speni dy >> Only Charles remembers being married to Di. > >I don't see how the second one means that. How do we know >that ce`u is bound by "ty"? Indeed, I wouldn't know what >"morji le ka" meant at all. Well, {ce'u} would have to be bound either by {le morji} or by {le te morji}, that would be part of the meaning of morji, as with any gismu that accepts a {ka} in one of its slots. I was going to say that binding to {le morji} was the more useful, as in the example, but we can have it the other way around just as well: Only Charles is remembered as being married to Di, which would require binding to {le te morji}, so I won't argue for it. >> > ro da poi ke`a morji lo nu da speni la dianas cu du le truraibe'a >> > >> >That, I think, gets the meaning right, though it would be nice to >> >find a way of doing it without the "du". >> >> I agree that those work, changing {nu} to {du'u}. > >And must we use the "du"? I can't think of another way. Perhaps something like: ro da cu trurai la gugdrkimre gi'o morji le du'u da speni dy For every x, it is the prince of Wales iff it remembers marrying Di. >How else can one say "is an x such that x remembers that x did..."? This is a similar issue to the question of what does {le gerku cu batci ri} mean. Is it "each of the dogs bites itself", or "each of the dogs bites each of the dogs"? And what about {le gerku cu batci vo'a} and {le gerku cu batci gy}? co'o mi'e xorxes.