Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:10:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712041110.GAA00823@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Robin Turner Sender: Lojban list From: Robin Turner Subject: Re: toxic memes X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1135 X-From-Space-Date: Thu Dec 4 06:10:25 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Lee wrote: >Memes are /not/ metaphorical at all, and language itself is the classic >meme complex. When I referred to "toxic memes" as a metaphor, it was "toxic" that I meant to be metaphorical, not "meme". "Meme" is obviously not a metaphor, since it is a technical term designed to express a specific idea. Metaphor, in the sense I am using it, is a way of expressing one (usually abstract) concept in terms of another (usually simple and concrete. Thus "inflation is rising", "time passes" and "I'm feeling down" and "word virus" are all metaphorical, because inflation does not physically rise, time does not physically pass us, feelings have no spatial dimension and words are not microscopic structures which replicate themselves in other organisms. Lojban sets itself the task of avoiding unmarked metaphor as far as possible, which may make it easier to disinfect toxic memes (he said, metaphorically). However, a look at the extent of unmarked metaphor in any language shows that this is indeed a daunting task! Robin Turner Bilkent Universitesi, IDMYO, Ankara, Turkey.