Date:  Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:22:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199712151722.MAA01930@locke.ccil.org>
Reply-To: And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>
Organization: University of Central Lancashire
Subject:      trying to settle {nu}
X-To:         LOJBAN@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Content-Length: 2408
X-From-Space-Date: Mon Dec 15 12:22:54 1997
X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU

Many gismu have nu sumti where I would have preferred there to
be du`u sumti. I myself will prefer to lujvo with du`u sumti
in place of gismu with nu sumti. But nonetheless, I think I
have found a way to make sense of these gismu's having nu
sumti. That is, this is may attempt to make sense of the
state of the language given what is baselined and what is
standard usage. It is emphatically not an attempt to argue
that what is outlined below is a desirable of the language.

1. Defining a lujvo: munje zei zasti
   = x1 is a world in which x2 is the case,
     x1 is a world of which x2 is true.

2.  {ko`a pixra lo xlura}

Is ambiguous between:

    {munje zei zasti loi du`u ko`a pixra lo xlura}

      -- which means that ko`a is a picture of a real flower
         - of a flower that exists in the same world as
         the picture.

and

   {ge munje zei zasti fa di loi du`u de xlura
    gi ge munje zei zasti fa da loi du`u da xi re me ko`a
       gi munje zei zasti fa ge(?) di gi da fe loi du`u da xi re
                                                        pixra de}

     -- which means that ko`a is a picture of an imaginary
        flower - of a flower that does not exist in the same
        world as the picture.

3. Likewise, {ko`a cinba ko`e} is ambiguous between

    {munje zei zasti loi du`u ge da me ko`a gi de me ko`e
     gi da cinba de}

    -- which means that ko`a and ko`e exist in the same world
       and ko`a kisses ko`e

and the extremely improbable and necessarily false reading:

   {ge munje zei zasti fa di loi du`u de me ko`e
    gi ge munje zei zasti fa da loi du`u da xi re me ko`a
       gi munje zei zasti fa ge(?) di gi da fe loi du`u da xi re
                                                        cinba de}

    -- which means that ko`a kisses imaginary ko`e or that
       ko`e is kissed by imaginary ko`a

4. Likewise, {ko`a troci lo nu ko`a cinba ko`e} is similarly
ambiguous between:

    {munje zei zasti loi du`u ge da me ko`a gi de nu ge di me
     ko`e gi da cinba di}

     -- which means ko`a actually does kiss ko`e

and

   {ge munje zei zasti fa di loi du`u ge da me ko`a gi de me ko`e
    gi ge munje zei zasti fa da loi du`u da xi re nu da cinba de
       gi munje zei zasti fa ge(?) di gi da fe loi du`u da troci
                                                        da xi re}

    -- which means ko`a does not necessarily kiss ko`e

--And