Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 16:34:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712262134.QAA03942@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" Sender: Lojban list From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" Subject: Re: knowledge and belief X-To: lojban To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1918 X-From-Space-Date: Fri Dec 26 16:34:18 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU >> la platon djuno le du'u la sokrates djuno >> le du'u la djan klama le zarci kei fo da >> >>must entail that: >> >> la platon djuno le du'u la djan klama le zarci kei fo da Lojbab: >and I disagree. If "da" is "Socrates observed the event" then that would >presumably serve as sufficient epistemological grounds fro Socrates to say >he knows John went. Is that really a possible epistemology? But in any case, Socrates is not saying anything. I am the one who is saying that Plato knows that by some epist. x Socrates knows something. > But Plato did not observe the event, and might not >consider Socrates' observation a sufficient epistemology for himself. If >he does, then his epistemology is more likely to be the authority of >Socrates. I'm confused. You didn't answer a previous comment of mine that might be simpler to start with. If I say: la sokrates djuno le du'u la djan klama le zarci kei ko'a Socrates knows that John went to the market by epistemology A. Does that require me to believe this: le du'u la djan klama le zarci cu jetnu ko'a That John goes to the market is true by epistemology A. Or can I believe at the same time that Socrates knows something by a given epistemology and not believe that that something is true by the same epistemology. It would be funny if I can say that by the same epistemology, Socrates knows that John goes to the market and Plato knows that John doesn't go to the market. >Lojban does not presume that all peopl accept the same epistemoilogies as a >basis for knowledge. Indeed, we even have a epistemological marker for >"I know culturally". If someone from a culture I know little about says >that they know something culturally, then I can state that X djuno Y fo loi >Z kulnu. Yes, but then you'd be commited to {Y jetnu loi Z kulnu}, or wouldn't you? co'o mi'e xorxes co'o mi'e xorxes