Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:21:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712090221.VAA03558@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Chris Bogart Sender: Lojban list From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: beginner's question X-To: lojban To: John Cowan X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1402 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Dec 8 21:21:22 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU Robin Turner translates "all women are flowers" as: >pe'a lo piro ninmu cu xrula po'a >"Speaking metaphorically, all of those who really are women, are = flowers" >(I put the "lo" in to make it clear that it is the "flower" part which = is >metaphorical, otherwise it could be read as "those who can be seen >metaphorically as women, are flowers").=20 Two comments:=20 1) I would use {ro} instead of {piro}. {piro} talks about the whole of = a mass, while {ro} talks about the entirety of a list of things. Since = you're comparing *each* woman to a flower, and not trying to say that = the whole of Womankind is like a flower, {ro} is probably better. =20 2) A quantifier after {lo} tells how many of the thing you think there = are in the entire universe. Rarely useful. A monotheist might say {lo = pa cevni} -- the One (and only) God. So {lo ro ninmu} is redundant to = {lo ninmu}. A quantifier before {lo} tells how many of that set you = want to refer to in this predicate, which in your case is {ro} -- I'd = say {ro lo ninmu}, or better yet the shorthand form of that, {ro ninmu}. >Alternatively: >lo piro ninmu cu ckaji le nu xrula >"All of those who really are women have the property I describe as the >state of being a flower". I think the x2 of ckaji has to be {leka}, not {lenu}. =20 Your use of {simsa} in a later message solves the problem of metaphor = nicely. =20 chris