Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 05:19:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712091019.FAA15039@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: On logji lojbo discussions X-To: a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2530 X-From-Space-Date: Tue Dec 9 05:19:09 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU >> Or perhaps "mi djuno tu'a lejeikau la frank cu bebna" > >Doubtful. IIRC {kau} is not well defined when not after a >Q-word. With a struggle I might make some sense of your example, >would it would take a lot of cerebration & conscious reasoning. If it is a conventional interpretation than it should take zero cerebration. All uses of discursives are inherently conventional. WE have agreed on a convention when kau follows a Q-word. We can agree on other conventions. It requires no cerebration or reasoning at all, just usage which catches on. Of course negotiating the agreement should take place in Lojban rather than English in this post-baseline world %^) >> No, since I created it. It was created specifically to talk about the truth >> of a proposition. > >But I have seen from your own messages that you have believed that >--More-- >to know the truth value of p is to know whether p is true. That is true. I still believe it. but I also believe that this is equivalent to saying "know that the truth value of p is X" because the nature of truth value" is that a proposition has only one. But we do not have idiomatic use of the phrase "truth value" in English, so I am not prone to say mi djuno ledu'u makau jei broda though I consdier this to be as Lojbanic as the xukau variety, and indeed careful analysis would find it even more appropriate. (The convention for other Q words besides xu, seems to be that using kau in a djuno expression means that a word which answers the question is what is meaning asked for. But the answer to xu is "go'i"/nago'i" which is not a truth value but a claim. Thus an English translation of a du'u xukau question might go like: Tell me whether is true or I am not entirely convinced that these are answrs to English "whether We have a convention like many languages that repeating a claim is saying yes to a yes/no question. But I am not sure that "whether" is a yes/no question. But I can live with Jorge's usage even if I may choose to express it differently. lojbab---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.