Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:06:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712201706.MAA22687@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: multiple ce`u (was: Re: whether (was Re: ni, jei, X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1985 X-From-Space-Date: Sat Dec 20 12:06:55 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU >So you enjoy watching the movie and you disapprove of the movie >having those properties. But it is not the properties themselves >that you enjoy or disapprove of: This is ambiguous and probably incorrect. I disapprove of movies which have these properties (restrictive) I approve of the movie, which incidentally has these properties (non- restrictive). These seem conrtradictory, since any movie which fits the former sentence also fits the latter sentence, if read solely as restrictive/non-restrictive. Thus one has to presume that there is something about the relationship between the moive and its identifying factor in the former sentence that changes the meaning so that it is not merely the movie that I disapprove of. One possibility would be that I disapprove of the fact that the movie is characterized by these properties. But why do I so disapprove? Because I disapprove of the properties, and not the movie. Yet I do not disapprove of t the properties in an absolute sense independent of the movie. That which makes a movie vulgar/obscene is perfectly appropriate in some bedrooms. So I must disapprove of the property of obscene-movies as a self-standing concept. >>In English, I might say for the above that I do not approve of Vulgarity. > >How would you say it in Lojban? I'll skip this one, since I did not want to get into coining a lujvo for a concept that I cannot clearly define in either language, and which could become a red-herring topic, as well as one provoking controversial disagreement. lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.