Date:  Fri, 5 Dec 1997 17:28:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199712052228.RAA05903@locke.ccil.org>
Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com
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From: bob@MEGALITH.RATTLESNAKE.COM
Subject:      Re: Are tanru really metaphors?
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To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
In-Reply-To:  <l03102809b0ae1a4ff8ae@153.37.255.254> (message from Ronald
              Hale-Evans on Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:01:56 -0800)
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   I thought of another possible solution. How's this? "le jamnafagri" means
   "that which I describe as a battle-flame". Does this do the trick or does
   it imply possible duplicity or arbitrariness?

As far as I know, that also does the trick.

   ... isn't the full 5-letter rafsi only used at the end of a lujvo? If so,
   then aren't "[pev]jamnafagri" and "[pev]dambafagri" illegal lujvo, because
   they use "jamna" and "damba"?

Illegal, but for a different reason:  need a `y' in place of `a'.  My error.

    pevjamnyfagri
    pevdambyfagri

Here is an excerpt from Chapter 4 of the refgram:

    Each gismu always has at least two rafsi forms; one is the gismu
    itself (used only at the end of a lujvo), and one is the gismu
    without its final vowel (used only at the beginning or middle of a
    lujvo).  These forms are represented as -CVC/CV or -CCVCV (called
    "the 5-letter rafsi"), and -CVC/C- or -CCVC- (called "the 4-letter
    rafsi") respectively.  The dashes in these rafsi form
    representations show where other rafsi may be attached to form a
    valid lujvo.  When lujvo are formed only from 4-letter and
    5-letter rafsi, known collectively as "long rafsi", they are
    called "unreduced lujvo".

    Some examples of unreduced lujvo forms are:


         6.1)    mamtypatfu
                 from "mamta patfu"
                 "mother father" or "maternal grandfather"

         6.2)    lerfyliste
                 from "lerfu liste"
                 "letter list" or a "list of letters"
                 (letters of the alphabet)
                 "evening meal" or "supper"
        ...

    The term for a lujvo made up solely of short rafsi is "fully
    reduced lujvo".  ...

    ... some of the unreduced forms in the previous example may be
    fully reduced to:

         6.10)   mampa'u
                 from "mamta patfu"
                 "mother father" or "maternal grandfather"

         6.11)   lerste
                 from "lerfu liste"
                 "letter list" or a "list of letters"