Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 07:39:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712161239.HAA05990@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: whether (was Re: ni, jei, perfectionism) X-To: a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2041 X-From-Space-Date: Tue Dec 16 07:39:13 1997 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU >Lojbab to Jorge: >> I think we often approve of properties. >> >> mi zanru leka melbi >> >> I approve of beauty. > >You need a ce`a for the Lojban meaning to be clear. You mean ce'u, I assume. But NO I do not. To put ce'u in there (unless I put it in all places) is to focus on a particular place as significant to my apporval. The statement is NOT that I approve of the property of beautiful things or the property of people appreciating beautiful things or the property of aspects leading to appreciation of beauty or the property of aesthetic standards being used for such recognition of beauty. The statement is appreciation of Beauty, in all of its ramifications - the relationship between people and beautiful things and apsects and aesthetic standards. >> mi zanru le du'u melbi >> >> I approve of the fact that (something is) beautiful. > >No. "I approve of the proposition that something is beautiful". > >"the fact that" is better rendered by "le nu". I disagree, partly because I do not see any difference between the former and the latter. But since ledu'u got its definition in part from djuno, then le du'u which is something that can be known, must therefore be a "fact". >> If I get much from ce'u, then >> >> mi zanru leka ce'u melbi >> >> I approve of something's beauty > >"I approve of the property of being beautiful." I think I can accept this one. >> Both of the above seem to me to be elaborations on >> >> mi zanru leka melbi > >Elaborations in the sense of disambiguations. Disambiguation is not necessary to those of us who appreciate complexity %^) lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.