Date:  Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:53:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199712151653.LAA00867@locke.ccil.org>
Reply-To: And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>
Organization: University of Central Lancashire
Subject:      Re: whether (was Re: ni, jei, perfectionism)
X-To:         LOJBAN@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
Content-Length:  989
X-From-Space-Date: Mon Dec 15 11:53:41 1997
X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU

Lojbab to Jorge:
> I think we often approve of properties.
>
> mi zanru leka melbi
>
> I approve of beauty.

You need a ce`a for the Lojban meaning to be clear.

> which is distinct from
>
> mi zanru loi melbi
>
> I approve of beautiful things.
>
> and
>
> mi zanru le du'u melbi
>
> I approve of the fact that (something is) beautiful.

No. "I approve of the proposition that something is beautiful".

"the fact that" is better rendered by "le nu".

> and mi zanru le nu melbi
>
> I approve of the occurence of (something) being beautiful
>
> If I get much from ce'u, then
>
> mi zanru leka ce'u melbi
>
> I approve of something's beauty

"I approve of the property of being beautiful."

> whereas
>
> mi zanru le ka melbi fo ce'u
>
> I approve of something being a aesthetic standard of beauty.

"I approve of the property of being a standard of beauty".

> Both of the above seem to me to be elaborations on
>
> mi zanru leka melbi

Elaborations in the sense of disambiguations.

--And