Date:  Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:51:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199801050451.XAA28083@locke.ccil.org>
Reply-To: "Mark E. Shoulson" <shoulson@CS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <shoulson@CS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Knowledge & Belief
X-To:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
In-Reply-To:  <199712311714.MAA08861@cs.columbia.edu> (message from Steven
              Belknap on Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:13:23 -0600)
Status: OR
X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
Content-Length: 562
X-From-Space-Date: Sun Jan  4 23:51:38 1998
X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU

>Date:         Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:13:23 -0600
>From: Steven Belknap <sbelknap@UIC.EDU>
>
><la stivn djuno le du'u la xorxes djuno le du'u la lojbab klama le zarci
>kei fo da>
>
>"Steven knows that Jorge knows that Lojbab goes to the store."
>
>The above statement is always false, which considerably limits its utility.
>I am asserting that it is not possible to directly know that some else
>knows something.

That means that "djuno" can *never* be used (truthfully) except with a
first-person x1.  That REALLY limits *its* utility!  Can that be right?

~mark