Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:32:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801122032.PAA13596@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: knowledge & belief X-To: sbelknap@UIC.EDU X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-UIDL: 3fe8a80ddc709239b96fcf9eb55f6b5f Status: U X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2419 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Jan 12 16:07:17 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - I will confirm that I think that the intended meaning of djuno is closer to Steve's definition 1 than any other, though definition 2 will equally well cover most usages of djuno so far because most English usage is ambiguous between those two. I note in particular that definition 1 refers to "clarity or certainty". I think that the situations we are arguing about where truth is debatable between speaker and x1 of djuno, will be examples of "clarity" more often than certainty. The choice of words to describe the x4 place was constrained by the 160 column limit. "epistemology" was the shoirtest thing we came up with that conveyed the broadest sense of "how we know what we know". Its use in the Lojban definition is clearly not a mass noun, and thus "an epistemology" has the relationship to "epistemology" that "a science" has to "science". While it might be nice to include all 4 of Steve's suggestions in the x4 definition, we are limited by the fixed length of the definition space. In general, where we had multiple words for oblique places, they were stuck into the space beyond column 160, which is where the note about words usable for epistemology is located. BTW, the definition in the Webster's New World (which is my standard for Lojban work because the definitions fit my style of writing and comparing words) that I gfind most applicabel to djuno is "2, to be aware of cognizant of; have perceived or learned (ro know that one is loved)" I like this definition because it offers multiple near-synonyms aware of, cognizant of, have perceived, have learned and clearly implies that there are many ways to come into knowledge of something. The definition of epistemology given, BTW is "the study or theory of the origin, nature, methods, and limits of knowledge". criteria, schema, and standards are all kidns of methods of knowledge that could constitute part or all of an epistemology (a method of knowing or a theory of methods of knowing). lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.