Date:  Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:02:00 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199801070002.TAA14920@locke.ccil.org>
Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jorge_J._Llamb=EDas?=" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Subject:      Re: knowledge and belief
X-To:         lojban <lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
Content-Length: 1162
X-From-Space-Date: Tue Jan  6 19:02:01 1998
X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU

la stivn spuda la markl di'e
>>Just to muddy the waters further, how does this play with those indirect
>>questions that have been making so many heads spin?  What about "Steven
>>knows that Jorge knows who went to the store"?
>
>That would be:
>
><la stivn cu djuno du'u la xorxes cu djuno nu da cu klama le zarci kei>

[You are missing a {le} or some other gadri in front of {du'u} and {nu}.]

    la stivn cu djuno le du'u la xorxes cu djuno le du'u da klama le zarci
    Steven knows that Jorge knows that someone goes to the market.

Which is different from:

    la stivn cu djuno le du'u la xorxes cu djuno le du'u makau klama le
zarci
    Steven knows that Jorge knows who it is that goes to the market.

I may know that someone goes there without knowing who.

>I don't think this adds any additional problem, although perhaps I'm
>missing something.

In English you can't normally use "believe" or "opine" with indirect
questions: *I believe who goes to the market. But there should be
 no such problem in Lojban:

            mi krici le du'u makau klama le zarci
            I have a belief as to who it is that goes to the market.

co'o mi'e xorxes