Date:  Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:34:23 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199801082234.RAA09417@locke.ccil.org>
Reply-To: Steven Belknap <sbelknap@UIC.EDU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Steven Belknap <sbelknap@UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: knowledge and belief
X-To:         "Mark E. Shoulson" <shoulson@cs.columbia.edu>
X-cc:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
In-Reply-To:  <U16081.884187818@UICVM>
Status: O
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X-From-Space-Date: Thu Jan  8 17:34:24 1998
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>Well, you're missing the gadri before nu and du'u...
<snip>
>Also, your sentence would translate to "Steven knows that Jorge knows that
>someone went to the store"; indirect questions tend to need kau.

Oops. Xorxes pointed out the same problems:

< la stivn cu djuno le du'u la xorxes cu djuno le du'u makau klama le zarci>

>But didn't you just say that I couldn't truthfully say <da djuno ledu'u de
>djuno ledu'u bu'a>?  And isn't that exactly what you have written there?

Yes. The same problem remains, but your new phrase does not introduce a new
problem.

>
>I'll accept the argument that {krici} would work as well as {djuno} here,
>though I still don't really understand your (Steven's) distinction between
>the two.
>

I am struggling with the x4 place of <djuno>. I suggested a definitional
change for <djuno> in an attempt to remove the problem, in part by
incorporating your idea about schema, which I would like to hear more about.

co'omi'e la stivn

Steven Belknap, M.D.
Assistant Professor of Clinical Pharmacology and Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine at Peoria