Date:  Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:52:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199801051552.KAA11781@locke.ccil.org>
Reply-To: mark.vines@wholefoods.com
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Mark Vines <vinesm@wholefoods.com>
Subject:      Re: Knowledge & Belief
X-To:         LOJBAN@CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
In-Reply-To:  "Mark E. Shoulson" <shoulson@CS.COLUMBIA.EDU> "Re: Knowledge &
              Belief" (Jan  4, 11:42pm)
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X-From-Space-Date: Mon Jan  5 10:52:54 1998
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la mark. spuda la stivn. di'e

> > I am asserting that it is not possible to directly know
> > that some else knows something.
>
> That means that "djuno" can *never* be used (truthfully)
> except with a first-person x1.  That REALLY limits *its*
> utility!  Can that be right?

la markl. cusku di'e

You see, Steven, I'm not the only one who interpreted your
argument in that fashion....

If {djuno} really requires a first-person x1, then the x1
sumti should've been taken out of the place structure
altogether & put into the gismu definition, with places
renumbered thusly:

x1 (du'u) is known-to-me/us about x2 by epistemology x3