Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:43:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801101443.JAA18535@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: & howabout ? (Was Knowledge & Belief) X-To: a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-UIDL: 6c3b519ae0a47a2530bbb4ac9300cc9f Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2452 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Jan 12 15:48:37 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - >> It is in JCB's Loglan books. I think it is mentioned in the intro chapter >> of Cowan's grammer as well. Could you give an example of an exception to >> what is intended to be a core principle of the language? > >I can't give you examples of officially & wittingly countenanced >exceptions. But in our discussions of the last few weeks we have >found cases where polysemy was one possible solution to certain >conflicts within grammar & usage. Off the top of my head, the only >one I can remember is cucli ("curious"), where the meaning of cucli >various according to the grammatical properties of its sumti >(sdpecifically, iirc, whether x2 is a du`u clause containing {kau}). > >I've not studied the baselined giu`ste thoroughly, but I suspect that >there is a lot of similar polysemy. Ah, now that you have explained yourself... I agree that in some sense the variation in meaning between filling a place with an abstraction vs an object might be consider polysemy. However, I hope you will admit that the range of the meaning(s) is relatively small and confined only the the relationship of that one place with the rest of the predicate. The Loglan community has historically been rather blind about abstractions vs. sumti raising as well, though I think we have gone several major steps beyond JCB and indeed beyond natlangs in general in attending to the issue and making it POSSIBLE to resolve it, should we ever have fastidious enough speakers who can recognize when they are raising. AS for the specifics of including kau, we are aware and I think agreed that the inclusion of many of the attitudinals and discursives can affect at minimum the truth functional nature of a bridi. I have some heartburn at a discursive opeing up polysemy if it happens (though I still think that in the case you mentioned, the book simply has a sumti-raising error), but I don't think that this is necessarily polysemy in the wordlist per se rather than a complex effect of the cmavo causing the issue. lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.