Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:43:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801031643.LAA06174@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Colin Fine Sender: Lojban list From: Colin Fine Subject: Re: Adjectives X-To: Lojban list To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: <883118810.1022367.0@listserv.cuny.edu> Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2685 X-From-Space-Date: Sat Jan 3 11:43:49 1998 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU vecu'u le notci po'u <883118810.1022367.0@listserv.cuny.edu> la Andrew Sieber cu cusku di'e >Page 17 in the book says that "sutra tavla cutci" means a shoe that is >worn by a fast talker, rather than a shoe that is fast and is also worn >by a talker. So how do you translate the latter into Lojban? Either sutra ke tavla cutci (fast [talker shoe]) or perhaps sutra je tavla cutci (both-fast-and-talker shoe). >And how do you translate "a shoe that talks fast"? It seems to me, it >should be "sutra tavla cutci". Yes it could. The gloss in the book is unnecessarily restrictive. >The place structure is given in the book as "s1 is a fast-talker type of >shoe worn by s2 of material s3". >This seems to me that the shoe talks fast. However, the book says that >the wearer is a fast talker, not the shoe itself. Why does the wearer >have anything to do with it? "sutra tavla" is modifying "cutci"; "sutra >tavla" is not modifying s2 (the wearer). Correct. >For clarification, here is a complete bridi: > >ti cutci mi >That means "This is a shoe worn by me". Is this correct? Yes > >ti tavla cutci mi >"This is a talking shoe worn by me". Correct? Or a talker's shoe worn by me. or a shoe for talking worn by me. Or any interpretation you might put on "a talk-to-somebody-about-something-in- some-language kind-of shoe worn by me. > >ti sutra tavla cutci mi >"This is a fast-talking shoe worn by me". Correct? > Yes. >ti tavla sutra cutci mi >This is meaningless gibberish, because it makes no sense for tavla to >modify sutra. The other way around is ok, because "fast" is a way in >which I can talk, but it makes no sense for "talk" to modify "fast". >Correct? No. It means a (talk-to-somebody-about-something-in-some-language kind- of fast-at-doing-something) kind-of shoe worn by me. This might make sense for example in a context where we know the talkers walk at one speed and non-talkers walk at a different speed; or a shoe designed for moving at a talking speed (whatever that might mean). Or lots of other interpretations. > >Page 13 in the book says that the x2 position for cutci specifies the >foot that is wearing the shoe. I am simply using "mi", to indicate me >(my foot). Is this valid? Yes Colin -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK | | Tel: 01274 592696/0976 635354 e-mail: colin@kindness.demon.co.uk | | "Don't just do something! Stand there!" | | - from 'Behold the Spirit' (workshop) | -----------------------------------------------------------------------