Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:13:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801051613.LAA12575@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: mark.vines@wholefoods.com Sender: Lojban list From: Mark Vines Subject: Re: Knowledge and Belief X-To: LOJBAN@CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU To: John Cowan X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2095 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Jan 5 11:13:54 1998 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU [from the observation that the catcher caught the pitch:] la stivn. spuda mi di'e > > Is it > > really so outrageous to say that the catcher *knows* the > > pitch has been thrown? > > Yes. > > Only the umpire directly "knows" that the pitch has been > thrown and caught. Once the umpire indicates his decision, > everybody knows. If the umpire decides that ball was not > thrown and caught, then it wasn't under the rules of the > game, despite appearances to the contrary. Thats the rules > of the game. Such conflicting epistemologies led to Roberto > Alomar spitting on the ump.If one wanted to specify a non- > baseball epistemology, one could certainly use the x4 place > of djuno for that. Or maybe it would be clear from context > that some particular epistemology was being used. But this > is a baseball game, right? Shouldn't the default epistemology > be that of baseball? la markl. spuda la stivn. di'e Well, I still disagree with your position, but my disagreement is subtle enough that I no longer feel justified in saying that your position is ridiculous. I withdraw that comment & hereby apologize. I think that the default epistemology should be the schema of baseball, not the rules of baseball. You may know this already, but in case others don't: The notion of "schema" was invented by dream researchers, & quickly spread to the study of folklore, & from there to the study of consciousness in general, to game theory, & thence to AI research. As a technical term in those fields, a "schema" is a highly stylized, considerably simplified mental* model of a set of observations & behaviors that involves a similarly stylized & simplified set of expectations; this is generally* a mental* model that pervades an entire culture or subculture, not a mental* model that is unique to an individual or a small group. *(Of course, in AI research, the model may not be mental, & its relation to culture may be more problematical.) Anywho, the schema of the baseball diamond involves the expectation that the catcher faces the mound & observes the pitcher during the pitch.