Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:47:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199801090647.BAA27470@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: knowledge and belief X-To: shoulson@CS.COLUMBIA.EDU X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: O X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2424 X-From-Space-Date: Fri Jan 9 01:47:31 1998 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU >In PGP, you have keys passed around, but what needs certification is >whether the key actually belongs to the person it claims to. I can sign >Lojbab's key, to certify that I am convinced that it really belongs to the >person it says it belongs to, and then John could be "sure" that the key >belongs to Lojbab, IF he is also "sure" that my key belongs to me >(i.e. that the signing key is valid) AND if he is satisfied, knowing me, >that I am not ditzy and would not sign a key without being certain that it >really belonged to the person. This trust propogates in this manner, >forming what they call the web of trust. > >Application to djuno/birti is left as an exercise to the reader (mostly >because I'm not sure of it myself) > >~mark Far better put than I could or did %^) The sureness that you feel is ni or jei birti a degree of certainty - trust is conveyed by birti. But knowing that the value of the key is X (translated by djunom, with epistemology being however I obtained said key value) is really only "being convinced" that the key value is X (presuming that one would not load a key into ones linrary if there was no reason to believe it is valid. Trust/certainty is an emotional basis for truth (which may have a rational underpinning but may not). Convincedness I am trying to suggest is more of a justified sense of knowledge. I am interested in adding useful sysnonyms to the glosses whereever possible since it makes the eventual dictionary clearer and also richer in English coverage. I am also interested in making sure that a sense of "knowledge" by X is somehow dependent on speaker Y (not mentioned in the bridi) accepting the truth of the se djuno seems contra-LOjbanic. We would need some lujvo that expressly incorporates the speaker as a place: x1 knows that x2 is true about x3 according to epistemology/et. al. x4 which is considered valid by speaker x5. I am sure that place structure can be generated in a few ways lujvonic. lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@access.digex.net Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/" Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.