Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:52:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802231352.IAA26782@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Don Wiggins Sender: Lojban list From: Don Wiggins Subject: Re: zo djuno ce zo jetyju'o X-To: "lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu" To: John Cowan X-UIDL: bf4edcf5e18674a0aecc591362ee651f X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Feb 23 11:58:58 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - la .and zo'u > Are we really going to have to interrogate > Lojbab at inordinate length about the meaning of every gismu. And > note that even the gismu that seem straightforward, e.g. djuno, can > turn out not to be. There does not seem to be much alternative than to thrash out the meaning as we appear to have finally managed with 'djuno'. > How do we choose between them? - e.g. if we are going to use {djuno}, > which meaning will we intend it to have? Do we just ask Lojbab to > pronounce on the matter, and do our best to understand what his > pronouncements mean, and just swallow and accept it if they turn out > to be incoherent, or do we actually deliberate the issue, looking > at the intrinsic sensicality of the candidate meanings, and their > relationship to the meanings of other Lojban vocables? The problems with 'djuno', to my mind, have stemmed from the keyword and the meaning of the definition. The keyword is 'know' and there are some who have used this to subjugate the meaning to the English semantics. The definition uses epistemology and until the debate about 'djuno' I had no idea what this was or that it is in fact independent of truth. If one doesn't understand the definition, how can one possibly use the it correctly and the only way to understand it is by this very process of discussion. ni'oco'omi'e dn.