Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:46:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802171846.NAA22839@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: mark.vines@wholefoods.com Sender: Lojban list From: Mark Vines Subject: Re: Summary so far on DJUNO X-To: LOJBAN@CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: And Rosta "Re: Summary so far on DJUNO" (Feb 17, 4:55pm) X-UIDL: 8ccceeb93b263b38ba14af41c62fbc4c X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-From-Space-Date: Tue Feb 17 14:26:28 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - la .and. cusku spuda la lojbab. di'e > I know you hold linguistics in very low esteem, but the > fact that linguistics has never had anything but the > utmost derision and contempt for postmodernism might > nonetheless be taken as suggestive. la markl. spuda la .and. di'e It's suggestive of the fact that some of postmodernism's earliest texts attacked linguistics for "the error of phonologism". Phonologism (according to Jacques Derrida) assumes that speech is somehow more basic or more primary or closer to the "essential nature" of language than writing is, & dismisses writing as a mere "supplement" to speech. The critique of phonologism offered by po-mo thinkers has involved a fairly interesting exploration of the history of ideas in Western philosophy, linking some pretty bankrupt ideas with some of the positions taken by de Saussure & other pioneers of linguistics. IMO much of the "derision and contempt" directed towards po-mo-ism by linguists simply reflects the fact that linguists have no defense, no substantive reply to this critique. But po-mo-ism has a bad reputation anyhow (in many ways deservedly bad); so why should linguists bother to offer a reasoned response? It's easier to use empty ridicule when your opponent is already the object of hatred among intellectuals, in the media & among the people at large. But even if po-mo thinkers were wrong about phonologism (which they're not, despite being wrong about so much else), Lojban's goal of cultural neutrality would still require that po-mo expressions be _possible_ in Lojban. Or do you hate po-mo-ism so much that you wish to see all of its expressions banned from the language? co'omi'e markl.