Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:52:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802191852.NAA16038@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: And Rosta Sender: Lojban list From: And Rosta Organization: University of Central Lancashire Subject: Re: Summary so far on DJUNO X-To: LOJBAN@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-UIDL: 0145a116127e212826b0e5f2b46c43df X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-From-Space-Date: Thu Feb 19 14:11:00 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - Goran: > Translation follows. That's all I have time to read, I'm afraid. > > Lojbab: > > > In any event, I do not thonk that the truth of a djuno > > >proposition should depend on the speaker. > > > > Neither does anybody else, as far as I understand. > > You do, if you think that "djuno" behaves same as "know". In English > (and in Croatian) the speaker, and not the subject, decides the truth. ???? Let us suppose that "djuno" does mean "know". In that case, the truth of "ko`a djuno ko`e", said by me, depends not on me but on the state of the world, specifically on (i) whether ko`a believes ko`e to be true, and (ii) whether ko`e is true. I the speaker don't enter the picture at all. > I'm beginning to agree with lojbab about most of the arguments about > djuno, although I still don't agree about "know". AFAICS, the only argument pro Lojbab's position is that it is what he intended. --And.