Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:16:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802271916.OAA06375@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: And Rosta Sender: Lojban list From: And Rosta Organization: University of Central Lancashire Subject: Re: Summary so far on DJUNO X-To: LOJBAN@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-UIDL: 422603dc984a71a5e79127fee7d3ac3c Status: O X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Mar 02 13:39:13 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - Lojbab to Jorge: > >>xusra is more akin to cusku than it is to any discussion of truth. > > > >The main difference between {xusra} and {cusku} is precisely the > >truth component, isn't it? > > No. The difference is the "claim". lo se xusra are that portion of lo se cusku > which are "claimed", not that portion which are "true". The reason for > including the word "true" in the gismu definition is clarity in English as to > what it means to "claim" something. So that people don't go using "xusra" > to claim their lost jewelry at a lost and found office. Same with the use of > "true" in djuno, to keep it straight from other English ways to "know". [...] > >Right. Under the above definition you'd be asserting: > > > >-that x1 is a person or other entity capable of cognition > >-that x2 is a true proposition, that it can be arrived at by x4, that > > it is believed by x1, etc. > >-that x3 is the subject of x2 > >-that x4 is way that leads to truths, that x1 used that way to arrive at x2, > >etc. > > > >That relationship is indeed possible, even if it is not the one you > >intended for {djuno}. > > I have NO idea what youi mean by "x2 is a true proposition" as distinct from > "x2 is a proposition" in that description UNLESS you tell me whether it > means lo fatci (in which case no metaphysics need apply) or it is lo jetnu > (in which case a metaphysics MUST apply). I know of no other possible meaning > for "true" that makes it semantically meaningful in that phrase. If neither > of those applies then you could have said: > <-that x2 is a proposition thatcan be arrived at by x4 ... How about, instead of "x2 is a true proposition": x2 is the case or x2 obtains or x2 is a logical condition for the djuno bridi (or anything that circumvents your neurosis about use of the word "truth")? God help you if you ever tried to translate/write a logic textbook in Lojban! How on earth would you render the notions that in English are called _True_/_False_? --And.