Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:26:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802241826.NAA26625@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: And Rosta Sender: Lojban list From: And Rosta Organization: University of Central Lancashire Subject: Re: zo djuno ce zo jetyju'o X-To: LOJBAN@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-UIDL: 70960d5647e8a01e118bd535c4ad013d X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-From-Space-Date: Tue Feb 24 13:11:19 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - Rob: > >> 'djuno' means what the baseline says it does, i.e. what lojbab intended. > > > >This is surely the crux. Are we really going to have to interrogate > >Lojbab at inordinate length about the meaning of every gismu. And > >note that even the gismu that seem straightforward, e.g. djuno, can > >turn out not to be. > > But so far only 3 people (by my count anyway) on this list seem to have > problem with the straightforwardness of djuno's entry. If you mean that only 3 people object to the small degree of straightforwardness of djuno`s entry, you may well be right. I think pretty much everyone is resigned to it and accepts it as inevitable that such things arise if there is a guillotine on revision to the gi`uste. If you mean that only 3 people believe that djuno`s entry is less than fully straightforward, I suspect your count of 3 is too small. Certainly a fair number of people have agreed about the the meaning of English _know_ (about which I myself am in relevant respects birti), and I doubt that anyone - certainly Lojbab least of all - thinks that there is no significantly different between the meaning of _know_ and the meaning Lojbab intended for _djuno_. > >We just have two competing definitions of {djuno}. One, which is > >different from but akin to English "know", and which has been clearly > >articulated, and the other which Lojbab has been striving to > >articulate with varying degrees of success. > > > >How do we choose between them? - e.g. if we are going to use {djuno}, > >which meaning will we intend it to have? Do we just ask Lojbab to > >pronounce on the matter, and do our best to understand what his > >pronouncements mean, and just swallow and accept it if they turn out > >to be incoherent, or do we actually deliberate the issue, looking > >at the intrinsic sensicality of the candidate meanings, and their > >relationship to the meanings of other Lojban vocables? > > Perhaps it would help if you could repost this so-called "clearly > articulated" view of djuno? I remember no such animal. Presumably you have just been skimming the thread, which is what I often do when I'm not actively participating. The view I was referring to is that the meaning is: x2 is true about x3 and epistemology x4 convinces x1 that x2 is true about x3 --And.