Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:25:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802281725.MAA15509@locke.ccil.org> Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: binxo X-To: jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan X-UIDL: ea8fad9e819635260517027afe034304 Status: O X-Mozilla-Status: 8011 X-From-Space-Date: Mon Mar 02 13:44:14 1998 X-From-Space-Address: - >Would you say: > > mi binxo lo se fraso > There is at least one French speaker x such that I become x. Which is one reason why I do not accept that as a translation of your Lojban. Yes I would say that, but no it does not mean what you translate it to mean. >>There is an implicit time transition in binxo. The x1 is a before-state >>that may or may not apply afterwards. The x2 (probably) must not apply >before >>the time transition. > > Precisely, but {lo se fraso} is not a state! OK so I was sloppy - it refers to a state (by description). Note that I was talking about x1 and not x2 when I said "state". You did not say that "mi" is not a state. oops, better correct that "description" since "mi" is not a description either and you are treating my English as if it were semantically precise. - there is a sumti raising going on that is parallel in both places of binxo, so it seems. But I am not going to make binxo require two "tu'a"s. >If we were to accept {mi binxo lo se fraso}, then we lose the connection >with predicate logic. Oh come on. This sounds like inferring that djuno would require a metaphysics place to be talking about truth implies that I think that a predicate with such a place cannot exist. Are you claiming that such a statement is not covered by predicate logic? mi binxo lo se fraso means "I become a French speaker". mi binxo le ka se fraso means "I become a specific-in-mind-property of French speakers" and seems quite strange to me. What you seem to want is for binxo to be identical to co'a ckaji I think that co'a ckaji covers the predicate logic inferences that you wish to associate with binxo. lojbab